What is the correct way to treat new users of the site?

Question

The reason I posted the https://rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1590/then-dd-is-not-the-game-for-you question rather than as a comment, or flag on the comment as I saw this as indicative of a general problem.

As background, I have been a moderator. OK only of the ACCU General emailist and I have been involved in RPG fandom as Chairman of the '96 Con. I raise this as someone that cares about the site and what I saw shocked me. It seams to me that this very young novice was attacked for asking question on a Q&A site about something he was obviously interested in. I remember reading the first D&D and it was incomprehensible; in fact, I would say it still is.

I was under the impression that this was a Question and Answer site for Players and Game Masters of Role Playing Games. This does not mean that you have had to have read the book (even if this is a good idea) or even played it yet. If we can't help the beginners, how do we expect them to come here and ask their questions?

So my question is:

Was this reasonable treatment of a Novice, and if it was not, what should it be?

Answer 1

First go read Jeff Atwood's relevant response here.

We certainly want beginners on the site. But do note that our FAQ says

Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is for expert Q&A by and for players and gamemasters of tabletop role-playing games.

Which means, please work to get at least a basic knowledge yourself. So yes, you do need to have read the book yourself (if you're asking questions about using the book - obviously not if you're asking for recommendations or whatever).

I think we've tried to treat new people with respect and to be helpful - BUT we do not want or need 200 questions that are adequately covered by the complete basics of game rules on this site. "What is AC?" "How do I add 4 to a d8 roll?" "What is an orc?" None of this is good and on-topic here. Note an account can get question-banned for it, and "not doing basic research" is one of the reasons for it.

Bryan did mod-contact him to help get him on the right track. He needs to read the book, ask in chat, find a play group, even watch one on YouTube. I recommended that he ask a "D&D is confusing, how do I learn more after reading the rulebook" question so that we can perhaps put all those kinds of things in an answer that would benefit other people.

The one comment you mentioned may have been phrased in an undiplomatic way; you flagged it and I deleted it. Success.

Answer 2

I have to pick a nit here:

I was under the impression that this was a Question and Answer site for Players and Game Masters of Role Playing Games. This does not mean that you have had to have read the book (even if this is a good idea) or even played it yet.

That does actually mean they have to have played at least one roleplaying game. I know it looks like the worst kind of semantic argument, but it bears out in reality and not just semantics: if someone has never played an RPG in their life, they don't have anything resembling the basic knowledge necessary to put answers into context, let alone be able to ask a sensible question in the first place. They're not a player of RPGs, and our site is for players of RPGs.

Having to have played an RPG is a reasonable minimum bar for participating on an RPG Q&A site. I don't think that's expecting too much of new users.

Someone new to programming who buys Python in a Nutshell and starts asking questions at SO without ever touching a computer is going to be out of place. It's no different here.

Answer 3

We were all gaming novices at one time. Many of us still are (including, for the most part, me). However, that does not preclude us from asking expert level Q&A.

There are at least two kinds of beginners though:

• The Inquisitive Novice. This is the kind of beginner that reads the rule book, plays the game a time or two, or sit and watches a game at his local gaming shop, or on youtube. Then they show up at the stack and start asking questions informed from the experience of game play. These people may ask basic questions, but they are well formed and the idea behind them is to improve the knowledge they have already acquired. This person will likely ask one or two questions initially and wait for answers and try to find the answers on his own to other questions (maybe even here).

• The Help Vampire. This is someone who has taken a cursory look at the books, seen things he doesn't understand and maybe does a small amount of research, then fires off 10 basic questions because he doesn't understand any of the rules and hasn't even watched some basic game play to know the basic flow and mechanics of the game. The term vampire is used because they basically just suck out all of the help they can get and leave a dead hulk of a site in their wake. This kind of behavior unchecked will kill a Q&A site (Yahoo Answers?)

Our goal as a stack is to keep the "Inquisitive Novices" they can manage to ask even basic questions that qualify as expert Q&A because they've done enough research to have the vocabulary and some basic knowledge to understand the answer. However, the "Help Vampire" presents a much greater challenge. Either we can attempt to reform these users and turn them into useful citizens. Or we can communicate to these people that RPG.SE is not the right place for them to learn entire games but is a place where they can come to clarify their understanding of the rules once they actually understand game play.

Let me be clear. I do not see the purpose of the Q&A portion of this site as having anything to do with teaching people how to play RPGs. Stack Overflow is not about learning how to program. Super User is not about learning how to use a computer. Seasoned Advice is not about how to learn how to cook. Christianity is not about how to become a Christian. All of these sites are for people who are there already to improve their skills and knowledge about their (profession/hobby/religion/etc). We are here to teach, but most of the time the very beginners are outside of our purview.

Chat (provided a minimal rep is accumulated anywhere on SE) is available and can be a much better means to actually teach people how to play RPGs. Several users on this site have learned 4e through Brian's weekly chat games where they can play with other experienced players (and a very competent--albeit evil--GM). We have an appropriate venue for teaching, and while the barrier to entry exists, it's minimal. Thus, if the problem is just that someone needs actual play experience, or to talk to someone then that's one thing. However, sometimes someone just want to come and suck out all the help they can get and move on. These people should be driven away as they consume valuable resources and provide no lasting benefit. They don't leave good questions behind and they just frustrate the kinds of users that we actually want to keep.

Answer 4

The actual Q&A part of this site isn't structured like a chat space or forum. Say you explain to the poster what 1d8 means. Okay, next question, what is Dex? Next question, what is AC? Next question, how many attack rolls do I make? Next question, where do I get funny dice? In another medium, a patient interlocutor could address these in one coherent space, and the user would actually gain understanding through dialogue; on Stack Exchange, these are meaningless clutter that helps no one, including the person asking the question.

Closing the questions and directing the poster to another resource (including RPG.SE chat) was exactly the right move. As was moderating away any excessively pejorative responses.

Answer 5

Are we really concerned that opening the site to questions like "What does 1d8 mean?" will ruin everything?

Do you really believe that concern outweighs our desire to increase traffic to the site?

I say open the site up to any question about RPGs, no matter how basic. If someone asks what "1d8" means, we rephrase the question, "Explain standard dice notation, like 1d8," and answer that. Next time someone asks, we close the question as redundant. If someone asks what AC is, we restructure the question as, "What are the abbreviations used in D&D?" and answer that. Subsequent questions are closed as redundant.

Personally, all of this smells of elitism. Really, I see no reason to chase away new players, eager to learn more about our games. Open the doors and welcome them all in.