About a week ago, we discussed how to sort out the World of Darkness tags in Clean up tagging for "World of Darkness" related questions. The question's been settled for about a week, and it seems you have all come to agreement on a particular scheme with no major disagreements voiced.

I'm creating this question to prompt you to act on it. It's time to start retagging. This is the part that takes work and patience.

  • Use this thread to discuss pertinent retagging stuff.

  • If you identify a tag synonym, merge, or rename that would save a lot of retagging work, please bring it up here. This is preferable to manual edits.

I suggest you identify a search query, or a series of search queries, which represent all World of Darkness questions, and work through them ordered by Newest - this is an order that won't change, so you can safely work through it from newest to oldest (or vice versa) without the order changing and leaving you missing a question because it's now in a page you covered yesterday.

The new tagging scheme

The new scheme is suggested in the previous thread.. I'll also describe it here.

The series tag

First, there's . Apply this to any questions which are about the World of Darkness line of games and settings in general. This tag may get used, it may not.

Its questions may generally involve version comparison questions, or historical questions, or questions about consistent design choices through the series, or so on. See the tag for a sample of the types of questions this tag might contain, from the D&D context.

Do not use this tag for questions asking about a specific World of Darkness edition. It's redundant in those cases. Save your limited 5 tags for something else; you will already be using at least 2 of them on an edition and game.

The edition tags

Each question asking about a specific World of Darkness game should have at least one of these tags.

There may be questions asking about comparisons between Old and New; these can be tagged with both. The long form of these tags has been chosen over the short form (wod, owod, nwod) for legibility and SEO.

The game tags

These are tags such as:

If someone is asking about a specific game, it should have a tag describing it. As a rule of thumb: if someone is going to leave their other manuals on the shelf to run this game, it should probably have its own tag. That means for now, Blood & Smoke should also have a tag.

Tag games by their book title. Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition has a '2e' in its tag name because the book will be titled that way. Vampire: the Requiem's first edition does not have a '1e', because it isn't titled that way.

Other questions in the World of Darkness tag cleanup project

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    \$\begingroup\$ Keep in mind that tag synonyming and merging don't bump questions so are very desirable over manual retagging where possible. I'm happy to do them (and also, synonym-merge-unsynonym) as long as it's made clear what I need to do. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 23 '14 at 2:19
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    \$\begingroup\$ Shine black the sun, shine red the moon. Tag-gehenna is nigh! \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 3:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ Vampire darkages is a (setting?) tag that exists. idk what to do with it. It seems legit. I suggest it needs a tag wiki but I am too unsure. Possibly it needs a metaquestion of its own? It isn't in your taxonomy. rpg.stackexchange.com/tags/vampire-darkages \$\endgroup\$ – Lyndon White Sep 23 '14 at 13:17
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Oxinabox Vampire: The Dark Ages is, IIRC, a stand-alone RPG spun off the original oWoD Vampire line. It's a game tag that should be under [old-world-of-darkness]. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 23 '14 at 15:32
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    \$\begingroup\$ …It is sadly too late to update my Tag-Gehenna joke with a reference to Fragments of the Book of Mod. Please consider this joke errata. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 22:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc - ease down. The entire front page is minimal tag changes right now. This isn't important enough to go nuts on. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 24 '14 at 3:42
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mxyzplk I've been trying to space them out, doing only a few every hour. But I can quit for a while, surely. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 24 '14 at 3:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc An approach I took when burninating most of the new-gm tag usages was to do ~10 at a time, and the next 10 only after the previous 10 disappeared off the front page. That worked out to once every day or two and limited the amount of front page space I'd take up in my edits. Maybe something like that could work? \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 24 '14 at 3:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ Just a nitpick : Awakening is NWoD, Ascension is OWoD. \$\endgroup\$ – Nigralbus Sep 24 '14 at 7:32
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Nigralbus whoops, thanks \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 24 '14 at 7:33
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    \$\begingroup\$ Are we ready to call this complete? I believe the great mass of applicable questions have been converted. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 1:33
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    \$\begingroup\$ Just a heads-up that I ended up creating the [new-world-of-darkness-2e] tag on this question. It was conspicuously missing and appropriately categorises the content of the question. I didn't know it was out yet, so I don't know how that works, but it does describe the question content, so there it is. \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Dec 10 '14 at 22:34

Brazen mod request: Turn into .

Not forever; just during the Retagging. I'd wager more than three quarters of the questions tagged w-o-d are o-w-o-d tag worthy. Retag the ones that aren't, then release the w-o-d tag from synonymy and use it as described above.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Yeah, this would be a sensible rename and series of actions, since the old policy was that WOD was our OWOD tag. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 23 '14 at 3:54
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    \$\begingroup\$ We could do the rename, then remove the synonym immediately, so as to not impact people trying to use the generic world of darkness tag. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 23 '14 at 3:56
  • \$\begingroup\$ I stand ready to sort and split. \$\endgroup\$ – Lyndon White Sep 23 '14 at 12:36
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    \$\begingroup\$ I merged world-of-darkness to old-world-of-darkness and then removed the synonym. I also synonymed and merged owod to old-world-of-darkness permanently. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 23 '14 at 16:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Changed a fistful of obviously misapplied tags manually. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 23 '14 at 16:38
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mxyzplk Thanks for doing so. Looks like it's coming along. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 18:22

Rename to

It is really splitting hairs. It is roughly the same rules.
The metaplot is gone but the rules are the same.
The largest differences in that wod-20th has modern items that wern't invented citation needed.

Or we could not do it.

If you think we should not, please downvote this post.
Reason we should not rename:

  • \$\begingroup\$ I have synonymed and merged wod-20th-anniversary to old-world-of-darkness. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 23 '14 at 16:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mxyzplk Can we synonym cwod and classic-world-of-darkness, too? \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 21:45
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    \$\begingroup\$ done to both... \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 24 '14 at 1:02

Rename [vampire-darkages] to [vampire-the-dark-ages]

There's a space in the book title. There should probably be a space in the tag. This isn't a big deal but it's bugging me.

Also, we're including the 'the' in titles now, so there's that.

  • \$\begingroup\$ per the "the" discussion should it be vampire-the-dark-ages? \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 26 '14 at 0:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ @mxyzplk oh, yeah, it should be. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 26 '14 at 1:02

Rename and Synonymise to

is currently in use. fits in better with doppelgreener's taxonomy. There is no reason they can not live together happily.

(I can't yet propose tag synonyms but someone else can and I can vote. Or a mod can insta-do it)

Or we could not do it.

If you think we should not, please downvote this post. A reason we should not do it, is that we do not traditionally create synonyms that have no questions.

When proposed it will be here

  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes, we should rename it. [new-world-of-darkness] is intended to replace [nwod]. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 23 '14 at 12:56
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    \$\begingroup\$ I have synonymed and merged nwod to new-world-of-darkness. \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 23 '14 at 16:27

Forgot the LARPers.

We do have questions under , which should go in the hierarchy somewhere. I think this is another mid-level tag. It can pair with (the card-pull system) and (rock-paper-scissors) and any of the extant games. There is a new edition of the RPS system out now, published by By Night Studios under license rather than Onyx Path, and I'm not sure what to do about that yet — probably , with as a synonym.

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    \$\begingroup\$ The "hierarchy" isn't a real thing - what is actionable here? Let's not super-overthink, if and when anyone asks two questions about it we can finesse the tag (it'll get deleted otherwise). \$\endgroup\$ – mxyzplk Sep 26 '14 at 0:44
  • \$\begingroup\$ Can't we just have one tag, and pair it with the appropriate "era" edition tag? So we would have "[old-world-of-darkness] [minds-eye-theatre]" for the old RPS system, "[new-world-of-darkness-2e] [minds-eye-theatre]" for the new RPS system, and so on? \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 26 '14 at 23:00
  • \$\begingroup\$ @SevenSidedDie I think that's what I was suggesting, or so I'd hoped. The only difference is that the new RPS system is not based on nWoD 1e or 2e, but on a fork of the old-world-of-darkness that exists only in the By Night Studios books, since they don't have the ability to use the creations of Onyx Path. It's like an alternate V20 that presumes a timeline that continued after the Final Nights ended with Gehenna as a dud. It's very much a new, and yet its own, thing. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 27 '14 at 2:30
  • \$\begingroup\$ Hm. So [minds-eye-theatre] works fine with [owod] and [nwod], but not [nwod-2e], and for that needs its own tag. [minds-eye-theatre-bns] is rather artificial though; what is the community calling it? (edit) It looks like its full name is "Minds Eye Theatre: Vampire the Masquerade"; that suggests [minds-eye-theatre-vtm] is the tag to use? And so continues the trend of the books being named super-confusingly... \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 27 '14 at 2:45
  • \$\begingroup\$ @SevenSidedDie "BNS" is what they're going with so far. And they just started showing off the preview slice of their Werewolf rules, which would lead to minds-eye-theatre-wta, I suppose. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 27 '14 at 3:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ Are the MET-WtA and MET-VtM rules looking to be sufficiently different? If so, they might each need their own tag (once there are questions on them, of course). I suppose this will all be clearer when the rules are mature enough for us to start getting questions on them, and we can figure it out then... \$\endgroup\$ – SevenSidedDie Sep 27 '14 at 20:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ @SevenSidedDie There are two BNS related questions in the [minds-eye-theatre] tag; they're described that way in the question text. WtA hasn't been released to the public yet; I suspect that, like VtM, it will serve as a fork of Laws of the Wild (MET Werewolf RPS). \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 27 '14 at 20:52
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ok, its complicated. oWoD has 2 larp systems, one by white wolf, and one by By night studios. They are vastly different games. nWoD has 2 larp systems, one in its own book, the other in the 2e books. They are not that different. oWoD really should have 2 tags, nWoD larp questions can just be tagged with larp \$\endgroup\$ – Tritium21 Oct 16 '14 at 5:04

This is now done, as the new tag exists, the tag wiki can now be edited in place.

Lets write this thing. I am not certain enough to do it. So community wiki. The current is not great. Since right now, with the likely being destroyed then recreates

Proposed new tag wiki for


Questions relating to the World of Darkness series of settings and games in general. Not for questions about specific editions.. For specific editions, see the [new-world-of-darkness] or [old-world-of-darkness] tags.


World of Darkness is a series of settings and games developed by Mark Rein-Hagen and White Wolf. The game currently exists in the form of three distinct settings: Old World of Darkness, New World of Darkness, and Monte Cook's World of Darkness. Each setting has been brought to life in a variety of games, such as Vampire: the Masquerade, Werewolf: the Forsaken, Changeling: the Lost, and others.

This tag should be used only for questions discussing the series in general.

World of Darkness System tags

These are the various World of Darkness products this system has tags for. If this list is missing a tag, add it! Some World of Darkness games may not have questions here yet, and those won't have a tag.

Good Examples of a question

  • \$\begingroup\$ Is it useful to create tags for games that don't have questions for them yet (like mummy-the-curse) or games yet to come (like beast-the-primordial)? \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 23:29
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc Tags can't exist without questions attached to them, so the answer is necessarily to wait until we have questions. Whoever asks them can then create the tag themselves - or whichever editor notices it needs that tag can be the one to create it. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 23 '14 at 23:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ @doppelgreener Mainly asking for the list in the wiki, but your answer suffices. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Sep 23 '14 at 23:47
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc ah right, well we could list the ones that don't have a tag yet (just to mark them out), though currently it just serves as a reference guide to the various tags we have rather than a list of what games exist. \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 23 '14 at 23:56
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    \$\begingroup\$ DtD should really be under GMC... \$\endgroup\$ – xenoterracide Sep 24 '14 at 5:29
  • \$\begingroup\$ @xenoterracide feel free to edit it and make it so \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 24 '14 at 7:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @doppelgreener I cannot \$\endgroup\$ – xenoterracide Sep 24 '14 at 12:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @xenoterracide oh right, not at the rep mark to edit meta content :'( I'll edit it. Are we using the new world of darkness tag alongside the god machine tag for those questions, or only the god machine tag? (I'm erring on the former, but it's probably going to get merged with the new edition's tag later) \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Sep 24 '14 at 12:38
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    \$\begingroup\$ I strongly suggest the later, because basically all our stuff is tagged following meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/4773/… which says not to dual tag them \$\endgroup\$ – Lyndon White Sep 24 '14 at 14:28
  • \$\begingroup\$ also VtR2 should be on this under GMC (I'm not gonna argue about what that should be named here, there's only one question, and that's mine, and I think I've renamed that tag a couple of times, but we should probably stabilize it) \$\endgroup\$ – xenoterracide Sep 26 '14 at 13:14
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Oxinabox Would you like to submit the excerpt and wiki? :) \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 2 '14 at 1:35
  • \$\begingroup\$ Done. Will probably be approved soon \$\endgroup\$ – Lyndon White Oct 2 '14 at 1:54

Blood and Smoke

I've created the Blood and Smoke tag (following the book title, it's exactly that: ) for the following two questions:

The latter was tagged previously (and untagged and retagged; really it's had a pretty turbulent tagging history). However, since it's not asking about that book, but instead its predecessor, I've tagged it accordingly with the book it's asking about. VTR 2e's going to be about the same thing, but we should probably wait until it's out to make the synonym switch.

Handling the pseudo-2e tags: Blood & Smoke, and God Machine Chronicle

NWOD has two odd games published: Blood and Smoke, and God Machine Chronicle. The former is being re-released as Vampire: the Requiem 2e, and the latter is becoming part of NWOD 2e.

I suggest we keep the God Machine Chronicle tag, and synonymise Blood & Smoke → VTR 2e only when the book's out.

The reason for keeping the GMC tag is simple: people might not be playing with the newer NWOD 2e, and might instead just be playing with NWOD + GMC. Communicating what they're playing with is important, tagging it accordingly is too. Tagging them with stuff they're not playing is strange communication.

I know NWOD 2e will be very much heavily based on GMC, but if they add, change, or leave out/remove anything, that opens things up to confusion. It's likely they will, being a new book: as far as I know it's not clear that NWOD 2e will contain the story content of GMC, and NWOD 2e might include new story content of its own.

  • "Why aren't you using X?" "What do you mean, there isn't an X in this."
  • "Check the chapter on ABC, page 22." "In which book? I can't find that on page 22..."
  • "You mention you're using Y. What do you mean? Y doesn't exist." "Sure it does, it's right there in the book."
  • "You seem to be using Z to do this thing, but it doens't do that." "Sure it does."

(and so on with problems coming from the asker and answerers using different books)

Also, if we keep , it should probably be renamed to

Of course, I haven't read these books, I just know what I know from what you've all said about them or told me in chat. So if the above is dumb or based on misconceptions, definitely call me out in comments. (Some of the above was dumb and has been edited!)

  • \$\begingroup\$ You are working from at least one misconception: the book currently called "Blood and Smoke: The Strix Chronicle" will be retitled as "Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition" -- the only changes will be cosmetic, replacing the title where found and correcting publishing defects. However, there will be a new core book, The World of Darkness, 2nd Edition, that will replace the current WoD core and incorporate the rules changes from GMC. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 3:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc Oh wow. So VTR 2e is, with very little change, just a reprint of Blood and Smoke? \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 2 '14 at 3:33
  • \$\begingroup\$ So close that people who bought the original will be getting updated PDFs free or discounts on the print versions. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 3:34
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc That sounds close enough to me, they're synonymous in real life! I think that means the VTR 2e tag should go back... \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 2 '14 at 3:38
  • \$\begingroup\$ Conversely, I think vtr-blood-and-smoke should stay for the very reasons you cite: there's no VtR2e out yet. Once it comes out, the two should become synonyms. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 3:40
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc Alright, cool. That sounds like it will work fine. What about the stuff on GMC? Does that make sense to keep? \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 2 '14 at 3:41
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    \$\begingroup\$ I think so, but it's too soon to call. It seems likely to me that TWoD2e will have the GMC Rules Update and all the character creation/mortals rules from GMC, but may not have the full God Machine Chronicle writeup -- in which case, keeping nwod-god-machine as its own tag may have value. \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 3:46
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    \$\begingroup\$ There's some useful stuff in this FAQ. theonyxpath.com/the-world-of-darkness-second-edition \$\endgroup\$ – Jadasc Oct 2 '14 at 4:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Jadasc. Thanks, that was helpful \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 3 '14 at 1:46
  • \$\begingroup\$ When VtR2e comes out, it will literally be an art change and a find/replace of "blood and smoke" to "second edition". Rose Baily and Rich Thomas has said as much. \$\endgroup\$ – Tritium21 Oct 16 '14 at 5:09
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Tritium21 Yeah, I understand that from Jadasc's explanation now. I definitely now recommend the synonym of Blood & Smoke to VTR 2e when they finally re-release it with that title. (To my knowledge, although they've released B&S, they have yet to actually release the VTR 2e book.) \$\endgroup\$ – doppelgreener Oct 16 '14 at 6:07

A tag search

The search only lets us go up to 10 tags in a single search. That is just enough for these two. (And thank goodness to Sublime Text for making this easy.)

All OWOD questions

[old-world-of-darkness] or [vampire-masquerade] or [werewolf-apocalypse] or [mage-ascension] or [wraith-oblivion] or [changeling-dreaming] or [vampire-kindred-of-east] or [vampire-darkages]


All NWOD questions

[new-world-of-darkness] or [vampire-requiem] or [werewolf-forsaken] or [mage-awakening] or [changeling-lost] or [hunter-vigil] or [promethean-the-created] or [geist-sin-eaters] or [demon-the-descent] or [nwod-god-machine]


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    \$\begingroup\$ rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/… < these are probably the real interesting ones since they show the overlap \$\endgroup\$ – xenoterracide Sep 24 '14 at 5:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ pending the last couple of approvals, I've gone and removed everything that shouldn't have oWoD \$\endgroup\$ – xenoterracide Sep 26 '14 at 13:23

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