A question was recently asked about whether a target of charm who made their save would know that a spell was cast on them.

I had found the this question which includes that case of the new question in the body, but not necessarily in the title.

Are there differences if a target fails or succeeds on a save roll?

The answers don't address that case, but it was in the question and does seem to be what the newer question is asking.

Should we remove that part of the question in the older one and leave the new question open or mark as a dupe and possibly bounty the old one to get it fully answered?


1 Answer 1


They are not duplicates because the recent question is about a wording interpretation problem for a specific spell

The older question asks:

In 5th Edition which spells, like Suggestion, are not noticeable, and which are noticeable by the target and/or nearby onlookers?

Are there differences if a target fails or succeeds on a save roll? [...]

The recent question asks:

The Charm Person spell description says:

When the spell ends, the creature knows it was charmed by you.

There is an ambiguity here — does this happen only if the target failed on the saving throw, or the result of the saving throw is irrelevant?

[...] According to the rules, it still "knows it was charmed". Does this happen if the target succeed on the saving throw?

On the one hand, the spell ends, so the target should "know it was charmed". On the other hand, one might argue the spell never took effect, so literally nothing happens when the saving throw is succeeded.

In order for the old question to cover the new one it would have to be asking answers to go through every single charming/persuading spell in the books and explain exactly which ones are noticeable, which ones are not, what happens on a successful save, and what happens on a failed save. This is the level of detail that the newer question is asking about since it is asking about the specific word choice in charm person in particular, not general things about these sorts of spells.

If the older question were asking for such a listing then, at least to me, it would be too broad. Thus, I assume that the older question is not asking for a detailed list of every charming/persuading spell in the game and explanations of what happens on successful/failed saves and thus it does not match the level of specificity that the newer question asks about and thus it is not a duplicate.

  • \$\begingroup\$ Not disagreeing with you in theory, but I added the quote from the old question. I get that that the new question is more specific, but the old question does directly ask the same thing. Maybe the old one was it too broad - are you suggesting we either VTC for more detail or remove the question? \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    May 3, 2020 at 22:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ @Naut If the old question is expecting answers to detail the exact mechanics of every single charming spell and what happens on successful/failed saves then it is far too broad \$\endgroup\$ May 3, 2020 at 22:43
  • \$\begingroup\$ Then we should probably VTC, but what if the original did want the quite I pulled? It's just odd because the new question is in that old question which normally results in duplication. \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    May 3, 2020 at 22:45
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    \$\begingroup\$ @Naut I'm honestly unsure what exactly the original question was asking. I think it wrongly assumed all charm spells were similar when in reality they are wildly different. This incorrect assumptions means a reasonable answer either explains every single one or does what the current answers do which is to say to look at each individual spell \$\endgroup\$ May 4, 2020 at 0:40
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I guess it's just one of those that we should just let go in the effort to get it answered. Especially since the earlier querent hasn't been on in a while. \$\endgroup\$
    – NotArch
    May 4, 2020 at 0:48

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