How is the [system-agnostic] tag supposed to be used?

Question

Coming off my discussion about this meta I have realized that I have no idea how the system-agnostic tag is supposed to be used correctly. Or, I thought I did but that not everyone agrees. Or maybe nobody ever agreed in the first place and I'm just catching on.

This has been a hot meta topic before and I have read the relevant old metas, but

1. They are very old (the most recent being in 2013)

   See Do we need the System-Agnostic Tag?, Is [system-agnostic] a meta tag?, Does the [system-agnostic] tag conflict with system specific tags?

2. They seem to rely on some old and/or false assumptions (eg "because we, in effect require a system tag...").

   The stack has changed a lot since 2013 and I think a modern answer would be helpful.

3. They don't actually give me an idea of how the tag is actually supposed to be used in a way that adds value. Some contradict each other (which, to be fair, is to be expected of developing new metas but it doesn't help me understand any better) or are vague to the point of not being terribly helpful.

Tag usage can and does change over time. And this one seems especially volatile if the last link is to be taken as fact given that it lists a bunch of different ways and reasons for the tag to be used (none/few of which seem to be captured in the current tag wiki). Has the folksonomy of this tag changed in the following 6+ years?

One matter of specific confusion is when to use the tag versus when to leave a question with no system-agnostic and no system tag. Another is if it can be used in conjunction with a system tag.

Can somebody give me a simple, clear idea how I am supposed to, in 2019, use this tag? Or does it not even have a use anymore?

---

Return to the FAQ Index

Answer 1

System-Agnostic: The System Tag Meaning "Not System-Specific"

The system-agnostic tag is for questions where the asker is looking for answers that are not tied deeply to a specific game system's rules, usually for portability. It is asking in a context that is "agnostic" to the "system" being used. This is extremely straightforward; don't overthink it. It is just a system tag that says "not one specific system."

"I am asking from a general RPG standpoint, not from within the frame of a single system."

As noted in those previous metas, people here love to urge someone to add system tags in nearly every scenario. "But what GAME SYSTEM are you using when you have demotivated players?!?" And that's fair; game systems vary widely and in this case, if someone is just playing, for example, D&D 5e, and they ask about demotivated players in a pure D&D 5e context, you might cite XP awards and Inspiration and advice from the DMG and so on.

However, some people (like me, which is why I am an advocate for the tag), play many, many different RPGs and we have some issues that we want solutions for that are more general. If I have demotivated players, I might want more broadly applicable techniques that will help regardless of the game we're playing that week. As a site, we support those kinds of players and that need.

You might have the "same question" asked with a system tag and with a system-agnostic tag and have them get different and good answers, just as you might ask the same question with two different system tags.

Because it is a specific declaration of the querent's intended scope of the question, then as @AceCalhoon points out, you should tend to leave it alone. You can ask the querent about their intent to clarify, but under no circumstances should you be trawling through old questions and changing either their system tag or system-agnostic tag unprovoked. That implies that you know better about what the querent needs than they do. Maybe, just maybe, someone is wrong about what system they're asking about (or asking about system-agnostic), but it's probably better an "ask them to clarify themselves" situation.

FAQ

Q: Does this site require a system tag?

Theoretically, no.

But in practice, this site does effectively require a system tag, one is on a huge percentage of questions and when it's omitted the question gets closed and/or a system is asked for a vast majority of the time. The chance you can ask a question without a system and not get hassled for a system is less than 1%.

Q: So, does every question without a system tag need system-agnostic?

I don't know, does it?

If people are willing for someone to ask a techniques or social question and not badger the querent into a system tag, then it's not needed on every question. But if people are asking for system clarity, and especially if they're closing the question because there isn't one, then it is a legitimate option (as is a system tag) to set a scope explicitly. If someone up front wants to declare "I know what I'm asking for and it's for system-agnostic", they can use the tag. We should respect that scope choice.

If you look at the most recent system-agnostic questions, and look at the highly voted open ones, many have people pressing them for a system in the comments and the querent wants to say "stop it, I don't want this specific to a given system." (See these questions, for example: How to Roleplay an Intimidation-Oriented Character Without Being a Net Negative for the Party, How can I show-not-tell my players that they are The Bad Guys?, How do I make quests rewarding for my player?, etc.)

Q: Can you use system-agnostic and a system tag on the same question?

That would be very uncommon, but could be legitimate based on the question. "How do I bring the competitive feeling that Amber Diceless Roleplay has into an arbitrary other RPG?" could have the amber-diceless and system-agnostic tags. If both are being used, the question should probably be explaining itself really well.

See also: Does the [system-agnostic] tag conflict with system specific tags?

Q: But is the system-agnostic tag really needed?

We've had 468 questions using the tag. It is the 21st most popular tag on all of RPG.SE. So yes. Many posters find it useful, so there's a pretty high bar to just wave hands at it to do away with it.

The highest-voted question on the site is tagged system-agnostic: How do I get my PCs to not be a bunch of murderous cretins?, where the tag was specifically used to try to get people to not obsess about D&D-specific answers.

As you can see it's a mix of player/GM techniques, problem player/GM issues, gaming style issues, campaign and adventure design questions, and so on. Which one could ask for a specific system, but for those who have a wider scope of RPGs, you want to ask it across them.

Q: But isn't this a "tag tax?"

All system tags are a tag tax, if you want to define it in that way. They set the scope of the question in a way that makes answers meaningful. If I give a FATE answer to a D&D question, it doesn't help the querent, and that's what we're here for. If I give a FATE mechanics question to a problem someone wants to solve across game systems, it is similarly unhelpful. system-agnostic is a system tag like any system tag, like "agnostic" or "atheist" or "non-denominational Christian" or "mainline Protestant" is a valid answer to "what religion is this question about?" In any event, these are useful scopes for questions and answers.

Q: But isn't system-agnostic a meta tag?

No. See this Q&A: Is [system-agnostic] a meta tag?

Q: Should I use a system tag, system-agnostic, or no tag on my question?

If you are playing a given system and you want answers for that system, add a system tag. Don't artificially widen it "because more people would find it helpful," the site works best when you ask about your specific problem.

If you are deliberately asking for cross-system techniques, put system-agnostic on it to shortcut people having to ask.

If you're asking a problem player question or something generic, you don't have to use either kind of tag, but you will likely be pressed to add a system tag – and you can then decide to add a system tag or a system-agnostic tag to answer people and head off the close votes.

If you are playing a freeform game, where there is a "system" but it's not one of the listed systems, you can use the freeform tag instead.

See also: Should I use a narrow system tag, or use a broader tag?

Q: Can I just assume that a question without a system tag is system-agnostic?

No, because "bad question" is another option. See this Q&A: Is it against policy or bad practice to attempt system agnostic answers to questions whose system has not been specified? – in that case, the answer was "you definitely should not have in this case." Alternatively, it may just be that the querent has failed to specify what game system they are playing; we have guidance for approaching such questions here: What should I do when a question does not specify the game system being used?

Q: Can I use system-specific examples when answering a system-agnostic question?

Of course. Keep in mind that if your answer is too dependent on one system, especially if that technique isn't easily portable out of the system, it may not be judged to be super helpful by the OP/community, but illustrating your points with specific systems is helpful. The querent will probably illustrate their question with examples from specific games/sessions too.

Q: Should I keep bothering someone who has declared their question system-agnostic to pick a system?

No, you should not; it's rude. If you think they are new and don't understand tags or something, you can give them a quick "Hey, if you are really just looking for an answer inside system X, then you might get better and more relevant answers if you pick that system", but then you should respect their choice. No one has to pick a specific system if that's not what they want to ask, and you should not try to make them do so.

Answer 2

I've been struggling with this one for a couple of years, personally, now. So I'm going to give it a go. (This answer, like mxy's, doesn't stand as a "mod-team answer"--it's just the answer of a high-rep user who cares.)

system-agnostic is supposed to be used like any other tag.^*

Tags are supposed to describe the question that is asked.^* Corollary: tags should not be used to describe the answers sought. This, I think, is a pothole that we hit every once in a while.

Consider, for instance, the following hypothetical question:

How do I show-not-tell my table-mates that a character is a bad guy?

This, I believe, would rightfully and quickly meet the comment "what game are you playing?" In my experience:

• 90% of the time the querent says "oh, it's foo" and either they or someone else edit foo onto the tag list. Problem clearly stated^*, answers can flow in that flow from expertise solving the problem the querent's having.

• 8% of the time the querent says "I want to know the answer independent of system" and someone edits system-agnostic onto it. But arguments start, it goes through POB/unclear close-reopen cycles, and noses are bent out of shape.

• And a magical 2% of the time the querent responds "I'm running into this in 4e and in Dungeon World and in a Great Ork Gods hack we use and in Microscope and in Fate. Believe it or not, this group uses all these systems to play in the same world/narrative, depending on the session." (Or something else that actually describes how a problem is arising across many systems.) There's a system-agnostic question, to be sure:

  How do I show-not-tell my table-mates that a character is a bad guy? We have a game going where for tactical combats we use 4e, for other adventuring play we use DW, we've banged on Great Ork Gods to occasionally have a session where we're playing the principal antagonists or a session where we're playing the world's seven major deities influencing world-spanning factions, and sometimes we break out Microscope to do some collaborative world- and history-building. Next session we're supposed to use Bubblegumshoe as part of our Great Game narrative thread! No matter which of these systems, I consistently fail to make my bad guys bad--what do I do?

  Now answerers can come in and decide whether to write a "true" sys-ag answer, or one that leverages experience with one of the named systems, or one that explains how they've discovered the answer really is different in the various systems. And voters, importantly, have the information they need to vote answers up and down.

The way forward...

I feel naive saying this, but I suspect that if we patiently and kindly lean on querents to describe their actual problem--like we do virtually everywhere else--we'll see clearly which questions are system-agnostic and which are trying to dictate answer forms.

The former will get tagged and answered, the latter still need to work on a clear problem statement.

---

^{* - there's a little twist here: we tend to treat system tags differently, and sys-ag kinda acts like a "real" system's tag. But I think it's maybe an unfortunate shortcut that we even treat system tags that way; I'm starting to think the habit we have of not necessarily mentioning system in a post and leaving it to the tag has this among other, unfortunate side effects.}

Answer 3

The tag facilitates finding questions/answers that aren't tied to a system.

Where the mods or the OP did not intend the question to be system dependent. It makes finding these easier instead of trying to search for question that are lacking any system tag.

For the individual question, it's not particularly meaningful.

A question devoid of system tags would have similar meaning.

As a querent, use it to indicate that the question is intended to be system agnostic.

This can help with answers or comments pick out if there are implicit assumptions in the question that it tie to a systems or set of systems. Additionally, it indicates that examples in answers should either be themselves agnostic or state "for example, in [system X] ..."

Answer 4

Use of the system-agnostic tag should be generally discouraged

My experience with the use of the system-agnostic tag on this site is that the vast majority of its uses are inappropriate; and the scenarios where its uses are ostensibly appropriate would almost certainly be better handled by a different [possibly nonexistent] tag, like homebrew-system or modded-system.

These are the scenarios I see it used most frequently:

"I'm looking for an answer that works for /any system/, not just 'X'."

On some level, I understand the innate curiosity of a question like this, but there are a couple recurring problems with posts like this:

• It might be possible to formulate a satisfying answer without knowing the system being played, but the question will get much better, higher quality answers by knowing the system
• The OP might be presuming that some issue they're facing is universally applicable to any game system; or that the answers to this issue will be/ought to be inherently applicable to any game system.

The problem in the former case is that most rules sets offer some degree of advice to handle things like Rules Disputes, adjudicating strange edge-case scenarios, etc., and omitting the system associated with the issue means that answerers cannot reference said solutions. And in the latter case, it's often just a wrong assumption: many things that players/DMs assume are universal rules/guidelines simply aren't:

Q: System Agnostic—How to handle Players that conceal information from each other?

A: "Well, that depends: are you playing a game where players are never allowed to conceal information from each other, or aren't you? Are you playing a game that encourages players to conceal information or does the game not care?"

Some games are happy to allow players to conceal information from each other! Others are not. An answer to this question would have to span the breadth of game systems and the varying permutations of scenarios where information is allowed or not allowed to be concealed, and it'll either lead to answers that are too broad/generic to have real applicability, or answers that make the same mistake of assuming too much about what things are "universal" or not, and provide advice that simply will not work for some systems, including potentially the system the OP is actually playing.

"I'm playing a hybrid of Pathfinder and 5th Edition D&D, and I need to know how to adjudicate Two-Weapon Fighting"

This kind of question at least represents the scenario where no specific system-tag adequately covers the use-case of the OP, but it's also very obvious that the correct tag[s] to use are the tag[s] associated with each game system they're using, i.e. dnd-5e and pathfinder. Tagging this question with system-agnostic would be highly misleading.

"We used D&D5e as a base, but built a completely new ruleset that only borrows vague concepts from 5e and is functionally an entirely new thing, how should we handle Bonus Actions?"

Again; Any one system tag, even potentially the dnd-5e tag would be inappropriate for a question like this: whatever the system borrows from 5th Edition D&D, the system they're using is not 5th Edition D&D.

But even so, system-agnostic is inappropriate: the system they're using clearly matters, even if it's a system that we don't (yet!) track. Using the system-agnostic tag implies that the answers given to this question could be applied to any other system, and that's clearly incorrect: the issues they're dealing with are self-evidently particular to the homebrew game they're trying to engineer, and the game system they based it on.

So when is it appropriate to use system-agnostic?

I can think of two kinds of questions:

"I've tried playing D&D3.5, D&D5e, Pathfinder, Call of Cthulhu, Trail of Cthulhu, Powered by the Apocalypse, and GURPS, and in every single game, it feels like my choices don't really matter. Am I playing TTRPGs wrong?"

On some level, a question like this will be informed by the various systems being called out, but it is indeed clear that the issues the player is facing are independent of the specific system they're playing in. Indeed; focusing on any one of these (somewhat) diverse game systems as a case-study for why the OP feels the way they do would probably end up distracting from their actual issue, which probably exists outside the diegesis of their game world.

"One of our players is making creepy and demeaning comments towards our [female] DM, how can we get him to stop?"

Again: The problem in this question clearly exists outside the scope of any one system, and instead is an interpersonal issue, relevant to the stack by virtue of the unique experience that TTRPG players have in dealing with poor behavior at the table. If this question were instead forced to be tagged with dnd-5e, it might attract answers like this:

A: "Have the DM start causing bad luck to happen to his character, causing them to lose stats or magic items, or forcing his character to do things he doesn't like!"

We could just trust the stack to clean bad quality answers like the above, but I would argue it's better to simply dissuade those kinds of answers in the first place. This isn't to say that such a question should obviously not be tagged with dnd-5e (or that any such use of a tag should be removed), but that it is at least an appropriate scenario for use of the system-agnostic tag.

---

In my opinion, there are two criterion that make a question suitable for use of the system-agnostic tag, that I think should both be (to varying degrees) true to justify its use:

• Solving the problem posed by the OP in the most complete manner possible can be done with absolutely no knowledge of the underlying game system the OP is playing in, AND
• Knowing the game system the OP is playing in is more likely to distract from their issue, or pose a Red Herring for finding solutions to their problem (i.e. answers are likely to try to pose diegetic solutions to things which have extra-diegetic causes)

My experience with this stack, however, suggests that the vast majority of questions posed here that get tagged with system-agnostic simply do not meet either of these criterion. Some do, which is why I do not advocate eliminating the tag entirely: there's clearly situations where its use is warranted and should be encouraged.

But as a general principle, if someone comes to the stack with a question that is only system-agnostic by virtue of a lack of specificity in their problem statement, we're better off drilling down on what that root issue is, rather than just deeming the lack of specifics as system-agnostic by default.

Answer 5

Leave it to the original author.

When the tag has been added to the question by the original author, removing it is more trouble than it's worth. The author probably has specific reasons for including it, and the benefit to removing it is largely academic. There's never been enough consensus towards eliminating it to justify a fight.

On the opposite side, adding the tag consistently means adding it to a lot of questions. Anything without a system tag is probably going to get it. Some questions with a system tag should also probably get it. Again, there hasn't been enough consensus to push through such a large-scale edit.